17:41:25 All right, sorry about that. The AI was doing the recording for us.
17:41:32 So we hope you.
17:41:35 have us on, uh, have liked us on Facebook and Instagram, and signed up for our email, and all of our workshops are always free. They do cost to produce.
17:41:42 So if you'd like to make a tax deductible contribution.
17:41:46 Um, then feel free to go to our website. There's a donate button on the top of every page, it tax free.
17:41:51 And none of it goes to the credit card company.
17:41:56 Now, without further ado, let me introduce our panelists.
17:41:59 Jenny Larios Berlin is entrepreneur in residence at MIT Martin Trust Center.
17:42:05 MIT for entrepreneurship.
17:42:07 Uh, she's a lecturer at MIT Sloan School of Management.
17:42:11 She's an entrepreneur, an educator, a speaker, an advisor.
17:42:15 And founder of Chameleon Eye, LLC.
17:42:18 She's a serial entrepreneur who has worked in the creative mobility, education, and housing industries.
17:42:25 Annabelle Vergereau has more than a decade of experience across the creative industries.
17:42:30 Annabelle Bergeras developed artistic,
17:42:33 Uh, educational and cultural innovation projects.
17:42:36 that have reached thousands of people, supported the professional development of hundreds of creatives,
17:42:42 and advised more than 100 fashion brands across
17:42:44 Latin America, the United States, advancing creativity as a driver of cultural, social, and economic transformation.
17:42:51 There's more detail in the online bios at our website.
17:42:54 So now I'm going to stop sharing and I'm going to pass it on to Jenny, who's going to pick it up from here and run with it.
17:43:02 All right! Welcome, everybody! Yay! Um, I, you know, uh, am so thankful that you guys are here, and that we can share a moment and be in community.
17:43:13 But maybe before I talk, what if we just do a quick little one-word check-in?
17:43:19 What, like, you know, how are you feeling right now?
17:43:22 And that's the question.
17:43:24 And I'm going to popcorn it to one of you.
17:43:26 And you're gonna, just one word.
17:43:29 Right now, just one word, and then you're gonna popcorn it to somebody else, okay?
17:43:34 So, I'll start. How am I feeling right now?
17:43:38 I'm feeling thankful.
17:43:40 I'm gonna popcorn it now to Joanna.
17:43:44 Joanna, Finnegan.
17:43:47 Hi.
17:44:00 Cool. You're feeling cool. And what about our wonderful
17:44:06 spectator gentleman behind you.
17:44:08 What's his one word?
17:44:23 Or even you can write it.
17:44:26 Anticipating, okay, okay, I like it.
17:44:29 .
17:44:29 And who do you want to send it off to?
17:44:30 Great.
17:44:16 Unmute Mary.
17:44:42 Dan, over to you. How are you feeling?
17:44:43 Okay, uh, I'm feeling a little anxious at the moment because of our startup book.
17:44:49 Anxious. All right, anxious, got you. Yes, we can be present with the word and with the emotions.
17:44:56 All good? Who do you want to popcorn it to?
17:44:59 Uh, I'm gonna pop it off to Jane.
17:45:08 Sorry, I think Chrome.
17:45:09 We have two Janes.
17:45:11 Oh, do we have two kids?
17:45:12 Jane Norton, go for it! Jane Norton.
17:45:14 Oh, I'm… I just got back in the room, I've got things… my husband's been sick. Sorry.
17:45:23 No worries, Jane. Do you want to share one word of, like, how are you coming in the space
17:45:27 Oh my gosh.
17:45:30 frazzled.
17:45:31 Fras, ooh!
17:45:33 Great word. Well, hopefully we'll give you a little, you know, warm hug and a little bit of time to relax and engage. Who do you want to send it to?
17:45:44 Johanna.
17:45:48 Okay.
17:45:48 Am I duplicating?
17:45:49 She went already, she went already.
17:45:52 All right.
17:45:51 Okay, the other Jane. That's safe.
17:45:55 Jane Bregoli, hopefully I said it right.
17:46:02 might she be there
17:45:50 Yeah.
17:46:00 You're on mute, just in case you're saying anything.
17:46:04 Jane, unmute.
17:46:08 Maybe we'll come back to Jane. How about Cory?
17:46:13 What's your one word?
17:46:22 Thank you.
17:46:21 Sorry. I know you said, or somebody said it, but I'm also curious because I've taken
17:46:27 Some of these workshops before, so I am filled with curiosity.
17:46:31 Amazing.
17:46:32 Who are you busting it to, Corey?
17:46:36 We have Rachel. Rachel, are you around?
17:46:41 Oh
17:46:40 And we also have you, Annabella. You haven't told us. So, so Cory gets to choose.
17:46:43 I know, but I mean, I want to check with each other.
17:46:46 Okay, well, I'll say Rachel, and we'll see if she's there.
17:46:52 If she's not there, I can take it.
17:46:55 Rachel 1, 3, 2, 1.
17:47:00 No? Okay, I think I'm gonna go right
17:47:02 Sure.
17:47:04 So I'm feeling super excited to be here with all of you. It's always such a joy to share space with other creatives and hopefully the conversation with Jenny might inspire some of you. And I'm sure all of you as well are going to inspire us with questions or with comments as well. So I'm excited to be here
17:47:25 Yes. And maybe just to kind of get us going to, before I jump in, feel free to stop me. Feel free to ask questions, feel free to say, I don't know that I agree with that, and let's talk about it. Um, you know, we're all here in a spirit of learning.
17:47:40 Uh, and in community. So, you know, to the extent, please know that, like, you are more than welcome to just be part of the conversation as well.
17:47:50 Our goal is not to wave a magic wand and to give you all the things.
17:47:55 Hopefully to give you a perspective as educators and entrepreneurship educators, as creatives on some concepts that we've been developing on how to build ventures.
17:48:11 Um, so with that, I will launch, uh, the presentation, and then.
17:48:19 with y'all what we have to bring to the table today. So let's just kind of get started with just like a quick here agenda. So why am I here, right? Like, what's my why?
17:48:35 My why is that I believe that art is the language of empathy.
17:48:39 I believe that if we can't see each other's collective humanity as a human race, we're fucked.
17:48:49 Um, and I think that artists are, are the people that can equip us with that.
17:48:59 Language of empathy. And I believe that you should be empowered to have the career that you want to have in the world because oftentimes what you want to do in the world.
17:49:11 to help people see themselves connected with the rest of the world. So that's my why, um, and I'm a first-gen Latina, so for me, um, culture and art was the way that I connected. I gave myself a sense of identity.
17:49:27 and a self… and a way of feeling like I'm in a place that I feel supported and seen.
17:49:35 And let's see, and so in my career, I've also
17:49:39 been a hustler. So, if there's a problem and something needs to get done, I'm the one that does it. Maybe it's because I was first born, I don't know. But what that's led me to is an entrepreneurial career. I didn't know it was an entrepreneurial career, I just thought,
17:49:56 that needed to get done and I did it. And so that ended up bringing me to working in startups. So one of the startups was actually a Cambridge-born startup called Zipcar. I don't know if you've ever used their cars before, but I was a part of it when it was growing really, really fast.
17:50:15 Um, and I did a lot of public-private partnerships, and I was like, gosh, there's gotta be a better way to communicate across sectors. How do we solve complex problems, thinking intersectionally? And so that's what brought me to MIT.
17:50:30 where I did the double masters in Urban planning and business. Um, and since then, I've been thinking about how can we use entrepreneurial skills, uh, to tackle tough problems and enable people.
17:50:43 So that's a little bit of my why I'm here and why I'm thinking about this problem, especially right now in terms of the existential crisis, I think that the arts are under, whether it's through funding or people really understanding the social impact.
17:51:03 that it has. So I'll stop there, um, and I'll let Annabella tell her her story.
17:51:08 story a little bit for y'all.
17:51:11 So another firstborn here, so I think we have a lot of things in common with Jenny, but I think that's a core thing in common as well, because that's a type 8 personality. So I'm Argentinian. I grew up in Mexico. I always wanted to be the creative and fashion designer, so I'm an artist by heart since
17:51:31 You know, since I'm a kid, I would do ceramics, I would do like every type of media while I was growing up, so very much like nurture on my creative side, everything except music, truly. So now even though I wanted to sing, that's not like that's not for me right now
17:51:46 And then I went into fashion, and I had my first brand by accident, so I became an entrepreneur by accident at 24. I always say there's waiting room there.
17:51:58 Yep.
17:51:59 So when I had my first brand, I was just like building something very creative, but then I also had to think about how, you know, am I bringing this into the market? So when I would sell my clothing, I would just like encounter that customer, that person that would love what I would do
17:52:17 And then I would have conversations to kind of further understand, you know, what's the desire of this that I'm bringing into the world. And I remember at some point in Buenos Aires, I was doing this pop-up, and then this guy comes and he tells me, like, why am I going to buy something from you
17:52:33 Here in Buenos Aires, if I can go to New York and then pay the same, but the designer is in New York and not Buenos Aires. And then I was just like, I'm gonna go to New York, and then I'm gonna build from New York. So I briefly moved to London
17:52:47 Before New York, and then my career went more into, like, the art space, and then when I moved to New York for… I did my MFA while I was also kind of inserting myself in the market, but now I was doing, like, fashion… like, fashion exhibitions, but in art gallery spaces, not so much, like, runway showcases
17:53:07 So, I sort of changed the community or the audience to which I was presenting my work, but also the amount of time I had in that engagement with the audience, right? If you think about a runway show, it's like literally like 10 minutes. So you're working six months for
17:53:25 10 minutes, and not everyone gets to go to a runway show, so not many people get to experience that, you know, artistic vision that you have. So then I found that, you know, whenever I would do an exhibition, it would be there for, like, 3 months, 6 months, 8 months, then that would give me
17:53:42 a closer connection with the audience. So, I was doing all of that, right? Also, like, in the middle of the pandemic, I graduated just, like, you know, just in the pandemic. So that also forced me to think about differently, because the pandemic
17:53:59 change a lot of the dynamics that were or that happened in the fashion industry and also kind of the creative space. I co-founded at that point a startup and that was the first time I was getting into like a tech space as a creative
17:54:14 And that truly open up such a new way of creating and seeing things, which I don't know, it's just like it's fed in my curious heart into trying to find new ways to build stuff. And then after that startup, I continue doing my art and creative practice and that continued growing. And then I also like supported a lot of other brands and other creative projects as well, because I love being part of this ecosystem and I love
17:54:43 strengthening in any way that I can this ecosystem. And I think on that, right, on that line, I met Jenny, and we were both sort of working on similar things, but she was at MIT, and I was just recently arriving at Ringling
17:54:58 And then what started this conversation is trying to kind of because every time I would be in a creative space or creative university, what I've encountered is such a lack of entrepreneurial skills. And because I had my brand and I was just this entrepreneur by accident, I always craved it, right? How can I grow also this part of myself
17:55:16 So, in that conversation with Jenny, there's a method that came to kind of to be, which is an adaptation of Bill Olette's Discipline Entrepreneurship. And we have a few things to share with all of you guys, if you let us. It's a little toolkit that we thought could be an introduction
17:55:36 through this whole new world
17:55:38 Exactly right.
17:55:42 No, no, no, no, no, no apologies.
17:55:46 We're…
17:55:47 Yeah, like…
17:55:39 And we want to make it a conversation. We want to make a conversation. Sorry, Jenny, I took like five minutes to introduce myself. I'm a heart creative. I'm an artist, MFA girl here.
17:55:56 Yeah.
17:55:53 We're following the heart, we're following the heart, and that's why we're in process. But yeah, so I hope you can hear, right? Like.
17:56:00 We're builders and we want to build within the different places. And so where we are right now is building educational material that we've learned from teaching others entrepreneurial mindsets and processes. So what we're gonna go through here is we're going to introduce sort of this creative driven enterprise model.
17:56:26 Um, so, uh, so I'll just say that. I don't want to spend time, because we're going to talk about it later. And then within that, there's this, um, terminology that we're sort of playing around with. If you don't like it, tell us also. Um, but this concept of, uh, creative DNA. So, an artist's creative DNA.
17:56:45 and how to understand what potential assets can be derived from that creative DNA, and then how to then start thinking about commercialization research, okay? And so that's what the primary market research section will be.
17:57:03 to differentiate between audience and customer.
17:57:06 how to research both?
17:57:09 So that we can go from what can sometimes feel like a creative push, build it, and they will come, and turn it into a market pull. Hey, when are you coming out with your next piece?
17:57:19 I want to buy. Can I pre-buy these types of things? And then I'll tell you a little bit about the class that was mentioned earlier that we launched on the MITx online learning platform, which is free and accessible to all.
17:57:35 And then a tool that we've put together that is very much a beta. So like I said, we're builders and so we built a tool and it's in beta, but you are welcome to try it, test it, break it, give us your feedback for free.
17:57:49 So it's a, you know, like think of it as like a reciprocal co-learning opportunity there.
17:57:56 Cool?
17:57:57 Thumbs up? All right.
17:58:01 Cool. Thank you.
17:58:02 All right, so let me just start with how we think about entrepreneurship, okay? So it's not Mark Zuckerberg.
17:58:11 It's not Elon Musk. It's not.
17:58:16 of these people. They're great, they're great. But no, I think for us entrepreneurship is really this you know props to Howard Stevenson, he faculty over at Harvard Business School, but when we think about entrepreneurship, it's really fundamentally this is the pursuit.
17:58:35 of opportunity beyond resources controlled.
17:58:38 How many of you have started an art project and not known what's going to happen next?
17:58:43 Right? Like, I hope this resonates because I think so, in so many instances, there are so many opportunities that we're pursuing and we don't know what we can control and how things are going to open up. And yet,
17:58:58 We figure it out, right? And so that, um, fundamentally is entrepreneurship. Now.
17:59:04 When we teach the venture building process, okay, so thinking about how to build a business, that's when we try to give this perhaps a little bit more shape. Um, and so we follow it up by this statement, right? So the formation of a new venture.
17:59:20 that creates value.
17:59:22 Through a product or offering, right? So think services or think an art piece, right?
17:59:29 And captures value, right? So you are receiving value for the value that you are generating and giving to the market.
17:59:38 make the venture economically sustainable. You know, one of the things that I used to hear a lot in the early stages of startup, no money, no mission.
17:59:47 Because we can't actually do the work if we're not able to subsidize it. And so that's why in this definition, we try to be very intentional about creating value, capturing value.
18:00:03 through a service or offering. And so that is the exchange that is happening.
18:00:08 Mary, did you have a question? I didn't know if you raised your hand or something.
18:00:13 No? Okay, cool, cool, cool. Just checking.
18:00:16 Please, yes!
18:00:15 In this context, can I add something, Jenny? I think it's a big part of the conversation we've had because it's like, it took me so many years to identify as an entrepreneur. And even though I've been doing all of these projects and putting them into the world and finding resources, finding customers, it's like
18:00:30 No, I'm not an entrepreneur, you know, being a creative is not about being an entrepreneur. And then we just, like, truly kind of cross cross check a lot of the qualities of, you know, entrepreneurial people and creative people. And it's a it's a match. So it's a compatible match
18:00:46 Meaning that as a creative, you have to, you know, think outside of the box, you have to go and find your opportunities, you have to build, right? Build your audience and build that community of people that are going to be looking at your stuff. And also, like, entrepreneurs
18:01:04 are pretty much doing the same, right? So, we are already acting as entrepreneurs without sometimes taking the ownership of saying, actually, yes, I'm an artist, but I'm also, like, a hardcore entrepreneur. And we hope with Jenny that by, I mean, at least that happened to me in my life, by taking ownership of saying, this is, you know, part of
18:01:22 Also, who I am as a creative and as an artist, then I can learn a little bit more about it to have more agency in my career. So, at the core of entrepreneurship to us is truly creativity, and it's truly that
18:01:38 you know, our creations and our vision, and that translates into that core DNA that all of us here in the room, right, if we have creative practices, we probably have it
18:01:51 And just the overall process of building a venture is a creative endeavor in and of itself, just, you know, it has different strings. It'll pull on different strings of your creativity.
18:02:02 Um, okay, so, so giving you that context now, um, we want to sort of introduce the creative driven enterprise model. Um, so, um, this… so just to, just to read it out loud, okay, and then I'll pause to see if any reactions, you know, uh, this gives me the icks or whatever like
18:02:23 Feel free, have at it. Tell me. A business building approach.
18:02:28 creatives with a robust creative practice. So it does assume that you already have a creative practice, um, and that that's already well and defined for you.
18:02:39 who want to build a financially sustainable career from their art making. So this isn't about, oh, find a problem in the art space and then go solve it. It's.
18:02:51 been building your art practice for years.
18:02:55 And now, how do you start to think about it as.
18:03:00 an asset that instead of just, well, maybe
18:03:06 before, because I have another slide for this, but essentially creativity is what is unlocking the offering or the products
18:03:17 That will be launched through your business.
18:03:20 Fundamentally, I'm going to pause any reactions to this?
18:03:23 I'm going to add something here, Jenny, which is like a lot of us, right? I was in fashion, so it's like, I can just do clothing or I'm a painter. I can just paint and we're not realizing truly that a lot of the concepts or a lot of what we develop in our practice can be translated into
18:03:42 multiple things, right? So, in the world that we live on today, there's so much opportunities to insert our creativity and have that creativity be in conversation and create value with different markets, different people, different communities.
18:03:58 To me, I started diversifying the way in which I thought about my practice, and then I went from being a fashion designer into being a creative entrepreneur, which meant that, you know, I could do fashion, I could do collections, I could do exhibitions, I could do, like, a content piece in partnership with Walmart
18:04:15 But I never thought that was possible for me because weirdly, right, when I was in fashion school, it was very silo and like, if you're a fashion designer, you can only design clothing. But then the more open into my career, the more I realized that my Creative DNA could actually have
18:04:31 multiple outlets that I was not thinking of
18:04:35 Exactly.
18:04:36 If that helps, I don't know, that gives a reference, Jenny.
18:04:39 Okay, yeah.
18:04:39 Yeah, no, no, I mean, I think it sets the tone here, which is, you know, well, you may be asking, what is a creative-driven enterprise? Maybe you're not. Maybe you're just like, oh, I'll just listen to Jenny. But, um, so specifically, what this is, is we now take your art practice, which you can clearly define.
18:04:57 Um, and then you are leveraging, um, that, that practice, and then identifying, uh, opportunities within it.
18:05:08 There you can create a multi-medium enterprise, okay? So think about anything within your art practice that is copyrightable.
18:05:18 Okay, and that now is an
18:05:22 asset.
18:05:23 Instead of just giving it away, you
18:05:26 Keep it.
18:05:28 And then you think about the different mediums.
18:05:32 that, that particular…
18:05:35 output that you have, that particular piece,
18:05:40 can be, uh, created into. So what are the different mediums?
18:05:45 that type of art practice could potentially go into. And so your enterprise is operating a multi-distribution channel model.
18:05:56 With each of the mediums that you have developed for your art piece.
18:06:04 So let me give you some examples here. So the classic example, right, is when George Lucas first was pitching Star Wars. Nobody liked it, didn't think it was going to work.
18:06:18 And so when he was trying to get funding for it, one of the things that he arranged was, and because nobody really cared for the script, he's like, I want to keep ownership of the script and the characters.
18:06:36 So Han Solo is now an asset, not just the script, but Han Solo is an asset. Luke Skywalker is an asset.
18:06:45 These assets can go into games. They can go into merchandise. They can go into Canvas, art pieces.
18:06:54 Each of those can be its own medium, then can be distributed in
18:07:00 different channels, right? Like even just the one game, that game could go on Steam that game could go on Nintendo, that game could go on Sony.
18:07:10 Each of those different endpoints to the customer.
18:07:16 is a distribution channel.
18:07:19 Because he kept ownership, had he sold the script and had gone to Warner Brothers, Warner Brothers would have done the same.
18:07:27 That's what they do. They do the same. They buy the script off of the author, and then the author may get some royalties, but all the upside of all of the different ways that that creative content can now be distributed in a multimedium, multi-distribution,
18:07:46 channel model all goes back to the studio.
18:07:50 Because they're the owner of that asset.
18:07:55 Is everybody following me so far?
18:07:58 Okay, the other one that I think is a classic example, too, is Mickey Mouse, right?
18:08:04 Right? So Mickey Mouse was Disney's asset.
18:08:08 So just think about it from that perspective, right? So a multimedium enterprise operating across multiple distribution platforms, and it's not saying that you're doing all of them at once. That would be a lot.
18:08:21 But that's what you're working towards in this business approach.
18:08:25 With creativity at the core, okay? So it is fundamentally based on your art practice. So, we also have this example.
18:08:37 you know, rest in peace. Yes, but Kusama, right? And the different applications that she ended up having for her art and how that also increased the different audience types.
18:08:52 could access the work.
18:08:57 Okay, um, so…
18:09:00 I just want to move this. All right. Okay, so creative. So a little bit more refined definition for you on creative entrepreneurship.
18:09:09 In my research and in Annabella's as well, when I've talked to folks at Yale School of Arts, at Cal Arts, at Mass Arts and so forth.
18:09:20 Generally, if there's going to be any business education.
18:09:26 The BFA or MFA programs, it's predominantly this model here, okay? It's this, which is creative small medium enterprise. So basically, how do you set up your studio? How do you set up your consulting practice? How do you set up your freelance?
18:09:42 How do you set up your artwork to be sold at different fairs and things of this nature? So that, that is definitely entrepreneurship.
18:09:56 And that one, that type of business building is a creative small-medium enterprise. So it tends to have a local focus or regional, basically, you know, how far can you go?
18:10:10 As the owner and the entrepreneur of this business. And so, like I was saying, those examples could be like your studio practice, consulting, some commissions, things of this nature. And so this table just kind of
18:10:24 When you think about time and the growth of your business over time,
18:10:30 The growth tends to be linear, and what we mean by linear is, for everything that you get paid, you can produce.
18:10:38 You get paid, you produce.
18:10:40 You get paid and then you produce again. Meaning that you're only as good as the last thing that you sold.
18:10:48 Okay, so if you don't work, you're not going to eat.
18:10:51 That's how that model works because it's dependent on your ongoing energy into this business.
18:11:00 Okay? It is very fast to enter into that, right? Like, you get somebody interested in your artwork, you're off to the races, you're in business, which is amazing. That's super, super great.
18:11:11 Um, this one, if it's a…
18:11:12 That's probably
18:11:15 No.
18:11:14 I'm sorry, Jenny, but that's also, like, probably the starting point. That's a good starting point as well for then moving to a creative driven enterprise
18:11:24 100, 100% yes. So, and that's why I'm saying, in many respects, this is… this is a model that's already being taught, and so for many, it's… this has actually helped you build out your practice.
18:11:36 This has actually helped you articulate what your art practice is, which is phenomenal.
18:11:42 So now what we're trying to say is, how do we amp that up? How do we take what we've learned?
18:11:50 here.
18:11:51 And then create sustainable offerings where.
18:11:56 offerings now start to work for you.
18:12:00 Okay, so what we mean by this is
18:12:04 That… oops.
18:12:04 I have to change my headset soon. Okay, so what we mean by this is with the creative driven enterprise.
18:12:14 You're now thinking about how that art practice here that you've developed can now create offerings or products for you.
18:12:23 And those can now be distributed for you.
18:12:29 So that then the revenue comes back to you without you having to keep producing.
18:12:39 So this does have the potential to have a global impact.
18:12:45 It does talk about how do we… and I want to be clear here that we're not talking about
18:12:52 monetization of your art practice. And maybe Annabella, you'll talk more about this, but there's a difference, I think, between what your art practice is and what are the projects that you want to do that are nourishing to you as an artist, that are nourishing to your
18:13:08 art practice.
18:13:09 And then there are the assets that you choose.
18:13:14 to bring out to the marketplace, because you want those pieces to be in dialogue with your audience and your customer.
18:13:23 And so those are the ones that we're talking about here.
18:13:29 So in this one, that's why it talks about products with creation at their core.
18:13:34 It has the potential for exponential growth.
18:13:39 It's uncapped because you can create new.
18:13:43 products and new creations from even your original starting offering.
18:13:50 It requires audience cultivation.
18:13:54 And it gives you greater control and agency, not just over what you build and what you distribute, but also how you build the relationship with your audience. You don't have an intermediary.
18:14:08 blocking you from your audience and your followers. So when we look at this, and you see this is what we refer to as the J-curve.
18:14:17 So this J curve, you could actually be building this business here. So it's going like this, and then you take a step function because of the products and the offerings that you're building. But the reason that sometimes there's a J curve here is because you're spending.
18:14:33 time and energy cultivating that audience before you're realizing revenue on it. And so that's why they're sort of, like, at a negative here, because the… the assumption is that right now, you're doing.
18:14:50 research on your market, and you're trying to understand what.
18:14:55 Do you want to put out into the world and be in dialogue with your potential customer? And so that can take some time and energy, and then once… once you've now changed from the research research to, I want to buy, that's the transition to market pull,
18:15:14 Now you have a revenue generating business where these products or services or offerings can now scale in this multi-distribution channel model.
18:15:28 Um, did you want to add anything to that, Annabella?
18:15:32 No, just to say that monetization, it's not sometimes immediate. And that's like the part of like the kind of the belly part of the J-curve
18:15:42 And then, but you're fostering this relationship with the audience, which gives you more of a direct engagement with them, versus sometimes we don't realize the power that we have in that relationship with the audience
18:15:57 And how can that transform into, you know, having a sustainable business of, you know, encouraging and fostering that direct relationship with the audience?
18:16:08 And a lot of, like, SME, right, when we are developing certain type of exhibitions or when we are acting on this SME model, a lot of the assets we are creating there, if we think about through the framework of a Creative-Driven enterprise
18:16:24 there's… it's not that you have to start from scratch, it's like you truly can drag a lot of the creative DNA and assets from there, and figuring out ways in which that can be translated and distributed in a way that's gonna let you scale
18:16:39 In a way that's going to let you reach a larger audience, maybe find the new customers well that you were not thinking about. Yes, I would just add that, Jenny.
18:16:51 Great.
18:16:53 Okay, so…
18:16:55 Let's go back. So that model, okay? But that model doesn't work if you don't have.
18:17:02 a creative practice that you feel is robust and that you can leverage.
18:17:10 So then let's dig into that part right now.
18:17:13 So creative DNA to creative asset. So I'll just read it so that.
18:17:18 time to process what's being said here. Taking the elements unique to your art practice.
18:17:26 and identifying specific creations.
18:17:29 It can be made into products.
18:17:33 Through a diversity of mediums.
18:17:37 with the potential to be distributed.
18:17:41 In multiple different channels for revenue generation and brand world building.
18:17:48 This has never been easier.
18:17:51 So for better or for worse, social media platforms are also a sales channel.
18:17:59 The barrier to entry to connect directly with your audience has never been lower.
18:18:08 And today, the consumer is looking for rich relationships, not transactional ones.
18:18:17 And so this is like in the past, you had to wait for your gallery, and then the gallery would, you know, they would be the ones that would cultivate the buyer. You don't even know if you felt comfortable with your art being in those people's homes.
18:18:34 had no choice because the gallerist was handling the whole thing.
18:18:39 Same is true with managers and producers and all those kinds of things.
18:18:44 gatekeepers, blockers.
18:18:47 You don't need that anymore, because there are so many different platforms where you can have a direct relationship with your audience.
18:18:59 I remember Jenny
18:18:58 And as a result, your customer. Go ahead.
18:19:02 When I first launched my fashion brand, that was 2014. And also like remember that was Argentina. So it was another technological landscape than the one in the US, but kind of just building an online marketplace was just like it would take months
18:19:18 months, and I remember the investment, and truly kind of the amount of work to just have that, you know, direct-to-consumer, like, selling channel. And right now, in 5 minutes, you can build something that makes your stuff available
18:19:35 For commercialization, for even a larger community that you can think of, right? Or that prior we had access to. So the idea of all of these framework is, like, how can we leverage the current infrastructure to truly distribute and to have our art and creativity reach
18:19:54 more people and more places, and as well, not rely on previous distribution methods, which sometimes would leave us waiting, or if you don't have gallery representation, you would think that you cannot
18:20:08 monetize from your art. Right now, it's just, like, in your hand
18:20:14 Mm-hmm.
18:20:16 Um, which is why we feel comfortable, sort of, putting this type of venture-building model out there. Um, so here are some of the features, um, when we think about this particular type of business in the creative landscape.
18:20:31 One is that it is audience-centered. So the following gives you leverage.
18:20:40 And what I mean by leverage is that it validates that there is interest in the work, and it brings other people to discover the work, which could be buyers as well. It's independent production.
18:20:54 To start, and then the goal is that will bring potential distributors so that then they participate in the process, and then it doesn't have to be independent after that. A rich, well-defined art practice,
18:21:12 It's a multi-hyphenate approach. Multiple products from one creative asset. It does enable multiple mediums for production as well as multiple distribution channels.
18:21:28 and ownership of copyright material. Now, sometimes I've had conversations with dancers and ceramic artists and others who are like.
18:21:39 Like, how does this work for me? How does this apply?
18:21:44 So for dancers, the moment that you put out a video, like a dance video.
18:21:53 That piece that you've put out is your art practice. It is a copyrightable material that can then be used to develop an audience to then open up other opportunities where that dance style, that dance aesthetic,
18:22:10 enables you to create business opportunities where people will want to engage with that type of style, aesthetic, you know, you end up creating a dance troupe, and so then how do you identify what are the different opportunities for touring and things like that, and how can you use
18:22:30 these video mediums to open up the aperture of the different ways that said art company could be engaged.
18:22:41 Um, paintings, scripts, you know, with ceramics, it could be the design. The CAD model.
18:22:48 That is the copyrightable asset. And then that becomes something where you keep the asset, but you work with.
18:22:57 I don't know hardware restoration hardware or other home decor organizations. And then you get to decide which are the pieces that you want to give them access to with
18:23:17 the business that you're… that you're generating.
18:23:22 Even
18:23:22 How does, yeah, go ahead.
18:23:23 Yeah, even if it's not copyrightable, right? Because like fashion is usually not copyrightable. It's a dress you cannot copyright the dress. You can make copyright a print, you may copyright certain pattern, but it's really not that easy.
18:23:40 So you can have a dress feature on a movie, or at a commercial, and then you can license the rights to feature the dress, just for the sake that it's yours.
18:23:56 There.
18:23:53 Even though it's not this copyrightable asset, right? So once you have your creation, truly, the way in which other people, companies, corporations can engage with your creation, it can, you know, you can develop a commercial relationship, and then you keep the asset, you can keep the asset as well
18:24:16 Agree.
18:24:14 I would say that, Jenny, to ownership of copyright
18:24:17 Agree. Agree. Fair.
18:24:21 Cool.
18:24:24 Now, the thing is that no
18:24:26 which medium to select.
18:24:29 Knowing which distribution channel to pursue.
18:24:33 Maybe even, you know,
18:24:36 Feedback on which of the different assets you want to pursue.
18:24:42 be something that you want to kind of hear from the market. So primary market research. Have any of you ever done primary market research?
18:24:56 Can I reframe the question, Jenny
18:24:59 Please, please.
18:25:00 Can I ask, like, have you ever been to your art opening and spoken with the audience and have them share about their experience with your own art
18:25:18 Lamont.
18:25:11 Have you ever received any, you know, opportunity to have a conversation or receive feedback on certain things that you put out there?
18:25:19 Lamont, tell us.
18:25:22 Tell us a little bit about your experience with that. And you're on mute, so just in case if you want to unmute.
18:25:30 Okay, sorry I was late. I'm in the middle of a remodeling project
18:25:36 All good, all good.
18:25:37 I lost track of time
18:25:39 But anyway, I'm a
18:25:44 I'm a freelance photographer and videographer
18:25:47 And so I've had feedback from Shawings
18:25:51 I'm also an instructor
18:25:54 That's all my students give me feedback all the time
18:26:00 So, and I've gotten feedback, I've exhibited in the St. Louis
18:26:08 St. Louis County Public Library
18:26:10 And so I've gotten feedback from that as well.
18:26:17 And then, those customers of mine who have purchased actually purchased my product have given me feedback.
18:26:25 That's pretty much where I've got my feedback and there's nothing like you know a happy customer. I mean that's the best feedback you can get
18:26:33 And so,
18:26:35 They've
18:26:37 basically expressed their interest because they like to work so
18:26:41 100%.
18:26:41 Lamont, does the feedback ever inspire you to kind of look at things differently than the way you were seeing them
18:26:50 My students
18:26:53 Oh. Oh, oh,
18:26:51 Or, like, does, you know, this information that you're having, does that inspire you to see, like, oh my god, I haven't thought about this, so now it opens up your mind in a new way that you were not expecting
18:27:04 You know.
18:27:07 No, and I think that's because I haven't had
18:27:14 What I would consider to be highly professional photographer
18:27:19 critique my work. I'm pretty sure I would get
18:27:24 feedback from them
18:27:26 That I don't get from those who just see my work, and they just, you know, appreciate it and admire what it is.
18:27:34 But I do know for a fact that if I had a professional
18:27:38 photographer look at some of my work, they would find something, because I find stuff after the fact you
18:27:45 So
18:27:45 So, Lamont, you're saying something which is very meaningful, which is like, we know how to find the people we need feedback from, right? Sometimes we know there's something that we need to kind of find out and we know how to get those people to find this out
18:28:02 And that might not be our students, or that might not be, you know, that might be that mentor, that might be that person that knows a bit more about something that we might not know. And that's primary market research. Primate market research is really kind of grasping into that that you don't know
18:28:19 And finding that group of people that represent the audience and a potential also customer to go and find out
18:28:29 what they know that you don't
18:28:31 Yes.
18:28:31 I would say that, Jenny, I'm not sure if you can reframe it differently. Thank you, Lamont.
18:28:37 Well, yes, and Corey, it sounded like you've done primary market research before too. Can you share a little bit of your experience with that?
18:28:47 Yeah, I, so I work collaboratively with a lot of other artists, and I'm also a teaching artist, and I'm just kind of very curious by nature, so I always begin the group setting with saying like
18:29:06 If something comes to you like during this process or if you have a question or a thought like please engage. And I think it just allows people to kind of look at things in real time and to come up with these thoughts. And a lot of times, usually more so than not
18:29:23 somebody thinks of something, or, like, is going through the process in a different way than I have before, and then it allows for, like, a broader, conversation just by asking first. And then I also, whenever I teach a workshop
18:29:47 Hmm.
18:29:38 class, I'll send the class, like, a feedback Google form, and I allow them to do it without putting their name in, and I think it just allows for, like, honest feedback, and even if it's not something that
18:29:53 I want to hear, or that's, like, hard to read, it's really important for me to allow people to give me their honest opinion, and then I can, like, evaluate and reassess, and just, like, kind of keep
18:30:06 cultivating that understanding of, like, what do people want outside of what my assumption is that they want? Because sometimes it's… it's not what they want, it's something different, and so it just allows me, by allowing them to not give their name, I think it kind of puts the guard down, and they can just
18:30:22 share their thoughts, and to just, like, remain curious and not be so tied to, like, good or bad or, you know, like, any of those perceptions.
18:30:33 But yeah, the Google form for me has been it's a game changer. It's just like I keep it easy
18:30:47 Of course.
18:30:39 It's multiple choice, you can leave a long form at the bottom, so it just allows, like, for that, like, constant feedback, to remain open.
18:30:50 Yeah
18:30:51 And Jenny
18:30:49 Great. And yeah, I think that that's the other thing that is exciting is that there are these types of tools.
18:30:57 We haven
18:30:56 That make it much easier.
18:31:04 Ah, great.
18:30:58 We have another person. Corey, I'm sorry I'm lying, but there's someone also that wrote in the chat and it's Joanna. She said, I've had feedback at art markets, retail, and wholesale
18:31:09 Oh, okay. Fantastic.
18:31:10 So we might want to let Corey just mentioned like Google Forms, maybe having empathy conversations with people to check the waters and where are things at? And I'm curious if, Sean, if you want to write the type of
18:31:33 Yes.
18:31:25 tools that you've used to gather feedback that could be useful as well, because there's different ways that you can carry primary market research. And Jenny, you can
18:31:35 Yes.
18:31:35 maybe go deeper into that
18:31:36 Yes, because I think you've all brought up really great points, which is, I think what I heard was, you know, open conversations during a creative process as well as reactions and feedback.
18:31:52 to… essentially, the products that you've already put out there. And what we're talking about is primary market research before you even put the product out there.
18:32:06 Um, because it, you know,
18:32:10 It could be that those that bought may not buy again.
18:32:16 It could be that those that maybe this one person may not buy again, but this other person.
18:32:25 They love your stuff and they talk to other people about what you're doing and they want you to succeed. And if they knew…
18:32:34 everything else that you were building, they might help you get discovered with other people like them.
18:32:40 These two may buy, but they are not the same customer.
18:32:45 And so this is the type of primary market research that is commercialization oriented.
18:32:54 Okay, and so this type of investigation approach analysis.
18:33:03 is, um, in some ways separate from your art practice at first.
18:33:09 Because, and I love Cory, what you were saying, that you're a curious person by nature, and so am I. And so, like, when… when I work with entrepreneurs, I tell them, you know, before you tell them what you're working on,
18:33:26 understand what are people's motivations.
18:33:30 And why they might seek something like what you may have to offer. Because it's a different conversation of what did you think of this versus.
18:33:40 Tell me what art you have at home.
18:33:43 How often do you buy?
18:33:48 Even the size
18:33:51 Like, how… how big
18:33:46 At what price range do you feel comfortable with? Yeah, exactly. How big is your home? Like, yeah, exactly. So these questions actually have nothing to do with your art practice at first. There's multiple different
18:34:02 iterations of primary market research that happen, that go from highly divergent.
18:34:12 to very, very focused. But if you start focused, you might be missing the forest for the trees, which is why we always start with.
18:34:22 broad market research.
18:34:26 So that we can start to get a great perspective of what is the potential.
18:34:35 market opportunities that you may have. In terms of who is the audience that again is not just
18:34:47 seeing the work and then moving on.
18:34:50 They love it. They support it and it means so much to them.
18:34:56 that they want you to get discovered.
18:35:01 They want to share what you're doing.
18:35:06 Yes.
18:35:07 Yes.
18:35:04 Jenny, can I ask you something before we move forward? Like, let's say… let's say I'm a photographer. I do like landscape photography, very beautiful, like large format photographs. I print them, I frame them
18:35:23 I'm used to kind of have them in an art gallery space, therefore, you know, galleries would commercialize them and find the clients. And then I realized, hey, you know, I just want
18:35:36 Figure out if there's another market for it, how would you approach right because you have some sort of creative
18:35:46 Assets, that creative asset, it's already like a medium, right? It's already like a frame photograph.
18:35:50 Right.
18:35:51 But how do you approach this notion of saying, I'm used to doing things a certain way, and I have some sort of creative DNA already set, what's that first step I need to give in order to find that
18:36:06 Yeah.
18:36:07 Yeah.
18:36:06 new potential customer, or another audience for my art
18:36:09 Great, great. So, um.
18:36:14 Where I start with that is what's interesting to me. So like all of you do artwork because it means something to you.
18:36:27 want it to have some voice out in the world.
18:36:30 Who do you want to hear, want to hear it?
18:36:33 Like, this is you giving back your agency and saying, it's not.
18:36:39 Who were the people that stopped by the market? It's.
18:36:43 Do you want to make this art for? Like, do you have that why you know like we had some students in the arts entrepreneurship class and one of them was like, you know, I went through a very difficult
18:37:00 care experience and sculpturing was the thing that saved me.
18:37:06 And I want others.
18:37:09 people that are going through tough situations like that to have this support.
18:37:17 That's a hypothesis, you know, that's an audience group. So my point here, Annabella, is like, what is your, like, who do you want your art to connect with? And oftentimes I hear everybody and I'm like, yes, but trying to serve everybody and not knowing how to position yourself,
18:37:35 And not knowing how to make it easy for them to find you means nobody's gonna find you.
18:37:40 And so that's when I start to say, let's start by putting certain, what we refer to as segments.
18:37:48 And these segments are labeled through a mix of what we refer to as demographic and psychographic.
18:37:56 So these are just qualifiers to help us understand, right? So like one could be like, um, you know, uh, Goth high schoolers, right? Like that's, that's a group, that's an age range. That's a, you know, social motivation.
18:38:12 Another one could be like urban young couple that, you know, wants to create a newlywed family identity.
18:38:26 You know, that's another group. Another group could be, you know, a retiree who, you know, really wants to experience nature while at home.
18:38:41 What I did for you just there…
18:38:42 And Jenny, can you have them?
18:38:44 Yes, sorry.
18:38:46 Sorry, just to finish that, what I did for you right there is I gave you three different audience segments.
18:38:52 And each of those,
18:38:54 would do primary market research with.
18:38:58 to understand what is their engagement with art in general, and how could that inform, potentially, their interest to your art? Go ahead, Annabelle.
18:39:08 Like, I'm thinking as well, right, those are three segments of audiences, potential audiences, right? And then I'm like, okay, I'm going out to the city, and I'm finding that this new restaurant, I go in, and it's crowded with retired people there, right? So, it's like, hey, actually.
18:39:25 If I'm selling, how can I foster a closer relationship with my audience if they are attending all of these other places, right? Could I speak with the owner of the restaurant and ask them if they would be willing to purchase my art
18:39:40 and have it on their walls, therefore then my audience would be closer to my offer as an artist. Could that be a way to think about doing PMR
18:39:52 Potentially, but those are two different things, right? One is the audience, and the other one's the customer. And what you nicely pointed out is that the customer could be another business.
18:40:03 Right? And so that's why we talk about audience and customer differently, because audience is always going to be an individual.
18:40:11 It's always going to be a type of individual who is going to be engaging with your work, and you want to build a dialogue.
18:40:21 with, um, that particular audience segment. And what's beautiful is that then that audience segment
18:40:30 help you find customers. So think of it also as like, let's say that you have different, I don't know, maybe you have theater. Theater is your thing, or even like I was saying, dance, dance is your thing. And so then, you know, you have, like, these different pop-up places that you might have dance-offs.
18:40:48 And it's like, you… and where do you get the most attraction, and could that then connect you to a potential buyer? Like, maybe it's a club that hires you, or maybe it's a… it's a… it's a gym
18:41:05 actually ends up hiring you. Who knows? Because the audience is what's giving you perspective on.
18:41:12 What companies might want to buy what you're producing or it could be that those audience members themselves.
18:41:23 decide that they want a piece, and that they want to buy it themselves. That's when you convert an audience to a customer.
18:41:31 And when that happens, then the goal here is how do they help you get other customers? How do they help you convert more of that audience into customers?
18:41:44 And you can build a deep relationship with your customers as well. And that's what I think is also really exciting and empowering as a creative.
18:41:54 So, the primary market research is really learning from the marketplace, um, and then your learnings continue. So that's why when I was saying, at first, you might have different segments, and then you're like, you know, you know what?
18:42:08 They are the ones that really get, you know, what I'm trying to put out there. And so then it's like, okay, now my next iteration of research is where do they go for art? What other art are they experiencing? That we refer to as secondary market research, where you're trying to, you
18:42:27 Use the data and the research that already exists to inform how do you better engage with that particular group or segment.
18:42:40 Does that make sense?
18:42:42 I feel like I'm throwing a lot of content at you guys, and I'm really sorry, um, but, um,
18:42:49 It's very, I hope you're finding it helpful.
18:42:48 No, it's clear, Jenny. It's like, yes
18:42:54 Okay.
18:42:54 It's… it's clear that this is the stage where you have a few questions you want to bounce back and forth with
18:43:04 An audience, a potential customer, and you can start by having conversations, even before you do a Google form, we're doing this all the time. Hey, I'm thinking of building this or that, what do you think? Would you be interested? You know.
18:43:15 Yes, but even before that, like, that's the thing that I see happen all the time, when people are already starting to pitch something, and it's like, no, no, no.
18:43:25 to have earlier conversations where you're just trying to understand what motivates people.
18:43:32 to engage.
18:43:34 What motivates people to buy?
18:43:36 Two different things.
18:43:39 And what… what is it about past behavior that I think is interesting? Asking them about past behavior sets the ground of future behavior
18:43:49 Yes, exactly.
18:44:07 Yeah.
18:43:50 is the most predictable thing we can have is how people responded or acted in the past. So, have you been to an art gallery show? Have you been to… have you seen the art at a restaurant? What, you know, what catches your attention every time you go to the gym and look, I don't know, and see the class offerings
18:44:12 Exactly.
18:44:10 Would you, something like that, right? It would be like the sequence of questions you can engage with
18:44:14 Exactly, and, and, you know, this is the other thing that I think is great for, for many of you who are freelancers, like I said, you're already in business, but now we're trying to figure out how to make that business work for you.
18:44:27 And so what the other thing that sometimes I've noticed, um, doesn't happen enough is, have you segmented the people that have bought from you before? Like, have you actually tried to break down into buckets the different types of customers that you've had in the past to
18:44:45 get a better understanding of what were their motivations to buy, what else do they buy? How often do they buy? You know, where else have they discovered the other artwork that they have?
18:45:00 And then that can also instruct you and you can say, okay, I want to grow that particular segment, or none of these segments are strong enough, and I'm going to go seek another one. That is very, very possible.
18:45:14 Um, so when we do primary and market research, you know, like I said, there's different iterations, and what, um, can you learn from the field, right? So, who engages with your work, which product features, you know, like, how do they want to engage with it?
18:45:30 brand and market what you're offering. Like where do they go? Are they more Facebook people? Are they more TikTok people? Are they more none of those? And I want to meet you at the library, right? Like, it could be any one of those.
18:45:43 Um, how you create your business model, and just to clarify, uh, business model is the way in which you charge money.
18:45:52 Okay, so the way in which you charge money, meaning do they pay you in parts? Do they pay it all at once? Do they have a membership subscription? All of these are different business models.
18:46:07 Who could help co-produce this product? Maybe there's an opportunity for a collab.
18:46:13 Who can become your first customers. So all of that.
18:46:18 You can learn through primary market research and none of that is actually immediately based on you producing an offering.
18:46:28 Okay, so you can do this research without additional cost, without additional development.
18:46:35 And I just wanted to share with you, because this link is on a, um, on an MIT article, which I think is open and available, and it has different articles here that you can… that you can check out.
18:46:58 So, I don't know if you can see my my screen here, but
18:47:00 I don't think it opened, it's just you remain in the same in the same
18:47:04 in the same presentation. Okay, that's fine. But anyway, this is, um, this is a website where it gives you some articles on primary market research. It should be free and accessible that you can, that you can access.
18:47:19 Jenny, is that a link you can drop into the, um, into the chat?
18:47:23 I think so, let me see if I can…
18:47:27 You can do it? Okay.
18:47:25 I can do… I can do it, Jenny. I
18:47:30 Okay.
18:47:44 Yes.
18:47:30 Yeah. Jenny, maybe some… maybe we can have a round of questions if people might have something they want to ask about PMR. I just want to open up the the space for questions on this topic
18:47:53 If you have questions, just unmute yourself. You have permission to do that at any time.
18:48:00 Or you can type them into the chat.
18:48:02 I have a question.
18:48:05 So what would be a helpful first? So like after listening to this, I did this
18:48:14 probably a couple of years ago, when I was getting started, and I was just kind of curious, mostly who
18:48:21 Like, in my local area who would be interested, and then trying to figure out, like, what are their demographics, where do they live, what are their hobbies. But I think that it's easy, speaking for myself, when you kind of get going, like, in a local ecosystem
18:48:37 You almost, like, forget that, like, other parts exist
18:48:42 While simultaneously, I feel like one of my
18:48:46 it's like an internal conflict I have. So
18:48:51 My practice is natural dyeing, and so I live in this space of, like, slow process
18:48:57 Caring about the resources. So I, like, often feel this, like, restriction of if I expand too much, am I going against
18:49:07 the moral compass of the work that I do. So how… what would be a good first step of
18:49:17 trying to, like, expand my horizons without, like, losing that core of
18:49:26 I guess, like, again, the moral compass that in which like I derive from like what I
18:49:32 Like, it's like almost like how to grow within a practice that's almost not really scalable by the nature of it, and wanting to, like, really
18:49:44 stand by that, so it's just like a… it's like it's kind of conflicting, I guess, internally.
18:49:50 Corey, what is it that you do? Can you share a bit more about that practice?
18:50:02 Yeah
18:50:04 Love it. Yeah.
18:49:55 I'm a natural dyer, so I extract stable dye for textiles from local plants around me. So I try to work like I'll work with farmers or like people who grow material will give me their wilted stuff once it's no longer used. So it's
18:50:17 I guess for me, it almost
18:50:20 Like, how do I start with, you know, go back to the primary market research while understanding that like my capacity
18:50:31 is also only so much because like I'm working with
18:50:35 Natural resources. So it's like if I was to scale in a certain way, it could be
18:50:42 a catastrophe for the natural material that we're using. So
18:50:46 Mm-hmm.
18:50:44 Corey, that… what I would say… can I say something, Jenny? Maybe afterwards, maybe you also have an idea, but what I'm thinking, Corey, is like maybe you're jumping too fast
18:50:57 to kind of the product, in a way, and thinking that the idea of the physical dye product might not be as scalable, and I would just step, like, 3 steps back and say, you think of a creative DNA, and you were very clear on that DNA, right? There's something about
18:51:16 preserving nature about the kind of the heritage of natural dyes, connection with nature, right? So there are certain things that you meant, this low, like, slowness, right, of the process as well
18:51:30 So that's your DNA. That DNA can turn into a creative asset that creative asset could be, you know, a die object, dye fabrics, you know, that can turn into a methodology that only you know how to
18:51:48 you know, create and put together. That could also turn into
18:51:55 It's just like maybe like a video to, like, more like a moving image type of asset, where you communicate certain things about this DNA that you've developed
18:52:06 And then that can turn at the same time into different sort of products, depending the type of conversations you might have without audience or that customer, right? You might have the people
18:52:31 Yeah.
18:52:20 You probably have already, that they are purchasing pieces, or they're purchasing maybe a workshop, but also you know that a workshop is not scalable either. If it's in person, you might have only, like, 10 people. But I'm like, okay, again, step back and figure ways in which you can craft a creative asset
18:52:37 with thinking of, I want to scale this, and how does scaling look like for keeping my truthfulness to my DNA while at the same time I can expand this to a larger community because in a way or the other, that's also expanding your mission and vision of that DNA
18:52:57 Mm-hmm.
18:53:11 Yeah.
18:52:59 I'm not sure, Jenny, if you want to add something, but I would think of different ways in which you can translate that DNA. Once you have that conversation with audience customer, which is like overall market, and you might find there are different ways in which you can translate that and make it
18:53:16 scalable without losing
18:53:19 Yeah.
18:53:21 That's just one less to it.
18:53:23 Yeah, maybe…
18:53:24 Go ahead. Go ahead, Jenny.
18:53:26 Go ahead. I was just going to say, Cory, wanted to hear your thoughts and response. I have some thoughts, but I wanted to give you space to respond as well.
18:53:36 No, that was very helpful. Thank you. It's why I wanted to, because I think sometimes it's easy to kind of… I'm a person who, like, I'm a big picture thinker, and it's often… I can have those, like
18:53:52 Think ideas
18:53:53 But then it almost becomes so overwhelming that it's like, ugh, you know? So it's like, that's why I wanted to say, because, like, I really would love to hear
18:54:03 And
18:54:04 Yeah, yeah.
18:54:02 your thoughts on it, because it's easy to in your own
18:54:06 Great, great, no, good, good, because the other thing that I was going to add is, and this is something that we also talk about when we kick off our classes, which is the raison d'etre, right? So like the reason for being, right? And so like when you think about
18:54:25 your art practice. Like, what is the impact that you want it to have? Like, I always root in like the questions of, like, what is the impact that you want to have in the world?
18:54:39 And then how do you let some of those answers kind of sit?
18:54:46 Because now, you want to engage with the, you know, the primary market more widely, right? So, to your point, like, how does this potential demographic or psychographic segment, but what does it look like in a more national sense?
18:55:02 Or even in a more global sense, right? And then how does that then relate to the impact that you want to have? So like even when you think about like when you were talking about sensitivity to perhaps like a local nature.
18:55:18 Is there perhaps new dyes that you could invent because of a different engagement that you might have in another geography with other students or artisans there?
18:55:33 Because, you know, maybe that's the type of impact that you end up wanting to have. And so to Annabella's point, like, you know, you have a rich practice, and now it's really thinking about, given the scale of the impact that you would like to have,
18:55:49 How does that then convert to different assets or offerings that you might want to consider in one geography?
18:56:00 or another, for example.
18:56:02 I don't know if that's also helpful.
18:56:05 And
18:56:05 It's very helpful, thank you. I very much appreciate it.
18:56:08 So… so
18:56:11 So it doesn't… yeah.
18:56:10 So let me, let me jump in with just one other thing that popped into my head.
18:56:15 Um, I know that there's a whole market of people who sell, um.
18:56:21 patterns for unusual things they have crocheted or knitted.
18:56:25 Maybe selling recipes for your dyes would be at another market to investigate.
18:56:31 That's
18:56:33 A very good idea, actually
18:56:33 Great, yeah, because that's another medium, too, when you think about book, and then, you know, like, different. So, super cool.
18:56:38 Yeah, there are a lot of people who do die and you might convince them that some of the dyes that you've created are worth trying out.
18:56:49 Love it.
18:56:49 Thank you, all incredibly helpful.
18:56:50 So it doesn't
18:57:06 .
18:56:52 So it doesn't get overwhelming, because also, like, if you think about the multimedia multi-platform approach, it's like, oh my God, right now I can have like 10 different medias and it gets, you know, it gets too much. We're diversifying too much, but then you have to start with one
18:57:09 Right? It's just like baby steps and starting with one, it's enough. And when you master that one, then you can jump and say, how can I expand this practice, right? So you start with the dye recipe book and then you're like, okay, I have this. Then
18:57:25 How can this grow again into something… into something else that I can scale? And also like the feedback from the audience, the feedback from the customer will let us also know how we can grow. Also trends when we think about market
18:57:42 market pool is like, what are the trends out there? You know, it's a huge niche, the natural dye community, there's so many things happening there, so maybe there's something trending there, and you know you can tap into that trend
18:58:00 Mm-hmm.
18:57:56 And you can bring something that's already being demanded by the market. So that's also, like, a secondary market research, right? We have primary market research, which is directly with the market, and having these conversations, the Google Forms, the surveys, but also secondary market research is important as well, because it's where you can
18:58:14 truly kind of, how do you say this, kind of filter trends that are happening currently in your field, you know, maybe you're following 10 social media accounts and you see that they are all doing sort of the same or dropping the same thing and you're like, how can I do this differently? Would my audience be interested in this? I don't know. These are ways to think about it, but just start with one.
18:58:41 Thank you. Thank you all
18:58:43 Um, great. So, I won't spend too much time on this, because I think we've already talked about it, but really, you know, audience and customers, right? So audience engages with your content, may advocate for your work and help others discover it.
18:58:58 And they will engage without purchasing. A customer pays for your offering, may refer other customers, may reveal new opportunities for expansion. And so keep in mind, right, that can your audience also be your customer? Yes. So that's like a conversion.
18:59:16 from audience to customer. Can individuals, um, be your audience and businesses be your customer? Yes. So that's, you know, another, another way where you can sell business-to-business, and what we tend to refer to
18:59:33 Uh, in terms of a go-to-market strategy is where you go where your business sells to another business, and that business makes your work accessible to the customer. So that's referred to as B2B2C.
18:59:48 And so sometimes it's… we get so into the consumer model that we don't realize that there could be some businesses that could buy our work. Um, so one of the companies that I did was Lime Shift, and
19:00:05 What we did is we actually were an intermediary where we connected artists that did social justice art and social practice art to companies that wanted to provide a culture building experience to their employees.
19:00:20 And so, here you have, um, artists that are a social practice, um, and they were bringing their same process to other communities that they hadn't thought about in the past. But that was a business-to-business model.
19:00:38 Cool.
19:00:39 Okay.
19:00:41 So here we are, we are building our creative-driven Enterprise. We've been thinking through what are the different assets from our creative DNA. We've gone out to the market, we've interviewed different segments.
19:00:56 get a sense of who could be potentially our audience, who could be potentially our customer, and we're trying to get feedback and perspective from them so that
19:01:13 We can take what we've been pushing, what we, you know, what we've been trying to get out into the market and turn it into a pull from them.
19:01:21 Okay, so it's very easy to build it thinking they will come, right? Like field of dreams, build it and they will come. They rarely do.
19:01:32 Um, that's a creative push approach.
19:01:35 Instead, let's build the market.
19:01:39 before even you having to put a lot of time and energy into making so that, you know, you really know that there's a market on the other side of what you're producing for your creative works as your audience and customers are seeking it.
19:01:54 you know, hence developing sort of this market pull for what you have to offer. So that's a little bit of what this, this concept is. And so here now.
19:02:05 We're going to turn it back on to you. So, you know, we're not going to we have these questions for you. So what we're going to do is maybe I'll read the questions and then we'll give you like.
19:02:19 Five minutes to at least think about them a little bit and then we'll check in if you need a little bit more time.
19:02:25 And then we'll have a bit of a conversation about it.
19:02:28 Now it's your turn. Kind of think through.
19:02:32 These three questions.
19:02:34 One is, what
19:02:38 creative asset would be
19:02:39 become the basis of your initial offering.
19:02:42 Right, so this is not… we haven't defined the offering, we don't need to.
19:02:46 Right now it's just what is the creative asset?
19:02:51 Um,
19:02:52 What is your working hypothesis? Like, given what you've sold and the experiences that you've had, and so forth, like, how would you define your audience?
19:03:01 Like, who do you think would be like the audience? Or maybe there's groups, like maybe these are the different types of audience groups that you think.
19:03:10 You know, are connecting to your work or would connect to your work. And then the third question is,
19:03:16 Who do you think is your customer?
19:03:20 So these are just working hypotheses. We'll give you five minutes.
19:03:36 I'll be back.
19:07:56 One more minute.
19:09:01 Okay, that was five minutes officially time.
19:09:06 Okay, so who would like to share?
19:09:13 I'm happy to call them, but I think it would be good. You know, this is this is for y'all.
19:09:17 Jane… Jane shares something already. She said children's book I've written and illustrated and self-published. I have control over what happens to them
19:09:29 Amazing, amazing. Okay. Thank you so much for me. Okay, too. Okay. Parents, teachers, okay, have to buy them for the kids right so then in that context, right?
19:09:47 the child is the audience, and then the customers are sort of these two different segments, right? One is in the education… as an educator, and the other one is as a parent.
19:10:02 And then
19:10:00 Homeschooling organizations, charitable organizations like Dolly Parton to distribute them to poor kids and PTA organizations and schools. Right.
19:10:11 Right.
19:10:11 So, a B2B, like a non-profit. She's going the non-profit route.
19:10:15 Well, but this is the thing, right? Like, there's a lot of complexity there because those are a multitude of different segments and they buy in different, in different ways. And so then when we do sort of this primary market research, one of the things that we really try to understand is.
19:10:36 One is, of all of these different buyers, what is their willingness to pay, right? Because that's going to inform your pricing strategy.
19:10:45 The other thing is how many books do they buy a year, right?
19:10:50 Does that then change how you position yourself in the market for that particular type of customer? So like, and even with parents, right, we have a multitude of parents and Jane called out.
19:11:06 really well here, right? It's like, in some cases, you have, um, you know, children that are under-resourced. So those parents would not be the right parents. So then, you know, when we talk about parents buying, which parents, what income level, what are their expectations of education on their child?
19:11:24 These are the things that, you know, when you do primary market research, you want to really and truly understand because it gets to the motivations of why someone buys. And then how do you prioritize these different types of buyers? Because how you position yourself to, you know,
19:11:44 for, I don't know, an affluent parent is going to be different.
19:11:49 And then how you position yourself for homeschooling organizations and things of this nature. And some of this your publisher can obviously help you with and stuff like that, but this is great. I love these answers because, again,
19:12:04 It no worries, Joanna. Thanks so much for stopping by.
19:12:11 And then even Christian organizations, right? Like, what are all of the different things that you would want to know about these different segments and which of them are one market? So let me tell you how we define a market.
19:12:26 A market shares three.
19:12:29 um, characteristics.
19:12:32 Oh, great, you're the public, amazing, amazing. That's fantastic. So you have the full, full control, more power to you. I think that's super important.
19:12:42 So a market is four entities and organizations to fit within the same market, they have to meet three criteria.
19:12:52 buy the same exact product. You don't have to change anything about your offering.
19:13:00 The second characteristic of a market.
19:13:04 is that they buy the same way. And what I mean by buy the same way is, do they budget the same? Is it the same line item? Do they buy around the same time of year? Do they have the same approval process? Do they require RFPs? Do they not?
19:13:19 Um, they have to buy in the same exact way so that your sales approach and sales cycle doesn't have to be reinvented for every single customer.
19:13:31 And then the third thing is, are these organizations or people going to the same.
19:13:40 education platforms, what we refer to as watering holes, and think of a watering hole as essentially these social venues where they're having conversation about the products.
19:13:54 about the things that they're buying. So, you know, trade associations and things like that, um, you know, ideally, that could be a place where you could find a lot of the same customers quickly.
19:14:08 So those are the three characteristics that you would want to have.
19:14:13 To have them be in the same… for them to be labeled as the same market.
19:14:20 Um, it is exhausting, Jane. That's part of the reason why we start with, of all of these different ones, which one would you want to focus in on that then could bring some of these other markets along, but instead of spreading
19:14:36 yourself thin.
19:14:38 to focus in on one, and then how does that then unlock the revenue potential that then can bring these other markets? Not saying that those other markets can't come, but more what is a staggered approach, um, to support your process.
19:14:52 But also, you don't need, right? You…
19:14:56 You are in charge of the amount of scale you want for your business, and your operational structure. If you're a solopreneur, it's okay just to go for one market and not just go for five different markets that you have to, you know, keep up with, and you might not have the infrastructure for it. So this is up to you as well
19:15:17 how much you want to take in, and in the future, if you might want to take a little bit more, you might need to bring someone on board, you might need to create a new partnership, you might need to kind of
19:15:30 create something from within the structure
19:15:33 And it's also like the process kind of Jenny's going through. It's
19:15:40 I mean, we're not going to nail it on the first time, right? But the more we do it and the more practice we gain an understanding of how to run these experiments, the better we get at them as well. And I think the less exhausting
19:15:55 the process can actually be. So, as everything, right? Whenever we're learning how to paint, we have to paint thousands of paintings before we truly nail something beautiful. The entrepreneurial process, it's like the creative process that we need to practice. It's an active-based learning approach, so it's not just reading, it's not
19:16:13 you know, passively starting businesses, but it's actually actively putting in place these steps or this methodology to engage with reality differently than we already do it.
19:16:29 Yes.
19:16:32 And then…
19:16:29 So I think there's a great opportunity, but it takes
19:16:34 Yeah, no, it's a process, but the good, the good news.
19:16:35 But we can be patient with ourselves. Yeah.
19:16:41 Yeah.
19:16:38 Well, and it also builds on top of itself, too, right? So everything that you've done is good and is useful, and is helping you get to the next step. And so, Corey, I like that you already have sort of a little bit of, like, a name for that.
19:16:54 type of customer segment that you have in mind. And to your point, right, like, women in their 30s and 60s who care about sustainability and slow living, like, you know, um, how… what does that look like nationwide, right? Because you have sort of that more broad, but
19:17:09 And you also have sort of New England with land and garden. And so what does that look like in other places and what are they looking for? And is community something that you can give these folks as well that then opens up more offerings for you?
19:17:25 Okay, but the good news. Yeah.
19:17:30 Yeah.
19:17:26 I'm going to interrupt for just a second. We've lost a few people. I want to launch the poll before we lose anybody else, but you can keep right on going while the poll's on screen, okay?
19:17:36 Okay, great. Great. So, so, but the good news is that like just even having this, sorry, just even having this as like a.
19:17:51 As answers to questions that's already working hypotheses that you can use to, um, help you go do your primary market research. And so one of the things that, you know, we've sort of put together is, you know, like, this
19:18:07 structure for how to articulate some of these hypotheses because my creative DNA includes, and so then you can describe what that creative asset is. I currently believe that and then that opens up, you know, that.
19:18:22 you know, this segment is going to be, you know, a audience really interested, or this, you know.
19:18:31 description, insert description of customer is going to be interested in buying. And then from there, you can craft questions
19:18:40 For that group to validate, you know, how they buy, how often they buy, how much do they pay for when they've done these other types of purchases before. So this is just an example, you know, because my creative DNA combines nostalgic illustration, hand-drawn topography,
19:18:58 and irreverent humor. I currently believe that people involved in independent music and alternative fashion communities may connect with my work. So that alone, now we have a hypothesis that we can go and take to the market.
19:19:14 Um, okay, great. So again, once you have that hypothesis, if you write, you know, 5 to 10 open ended questions, that now gives you everything you need.
19:19:28 to go learn from.
19:19:31 the marketplace. And then the information that you get back will start to open up other questions and other opportunities, um, and other discoveries, potentially, of, um, you know, other people that might be doing other things that could be helpful or informative to you.
19:19:48 So now, um, the Arts Entrepreneurship course. Um, if this is something that you're considering taking, uh, we are planning to offer it next year, um, and so a lot of what we've talked about, we actually have, uh, activities, um, exercises where we take the student.
19:20:10 Through doing these exercises by going into the market, doing primary market research, but then also coming up with a business prototype that they can test. And even there, I will say it moves a little fast.
19:20:26 But it's like, you know, what we what we try to do is at least give you the full recipe for how
19:20:32 to build this type of venture and then you can always go back.
19:20:36 Because after you take the class, all of the content and the material continues to be accessible. And so a lot of folks will go back and then they will use the same activities, matrix sheets, worksheets and stuff like that.
19:20:51 But then just do it a little bit slower, a little bit more methodically, now that they understand what the full process looks like from hypotheses development to market prototype creation to implementation of that market prototype testing feedback and getting a positive reinforcing loop of.
19:21:12 I put information out there, I receive feedback, I edit what I'm doing, I put new information out there, so forth and so on. And this video does have a narrative structure to it, um, so that's why I wanted to sort of, um, give you this, because we have sort of three worlds.
19:21:30 So we have the world where we educate, but then we also have the world of this shadow queens movie that's getting developed over the course of the modules. And then you have the director, Natalie, who's going through the imposter syndrome, who's, she is the student that you see taking the content.
19:21:50 And so then you kind of hopefully see yourself a little bit in Natalie as she's trying to figure out, is she really ready to produce this whole movie? Or maybe what she's going to do is a series of TikTok mini reels,
19:22:05 to develop her audience to then get her going in building her business. Who knows? Those are some of the things that you kind of get to see. So I just wanted to kind of share that with you if that's something that you're interested in, or thinking about running the class again.
19:22:23 probably in the late spring, uh, early summer next year.
19:22:30 Let's see here. Um, and then one of the tools that we made available to all the students for free is this Maker State tool. I don't know if it'll let me jump to.
19:22:45 I don't know if it'll let me jump to my website, but I will try to do so. Anyway, we created this tool and it's basically a companion to do the homeworks for the class. But if you kind of wanted to get a sneak peek into it and then.
19:23:03 You know, kind of help you contextualize some of the work that we did here. You're welcome to go to it. It's makerstate.com. Again, it's free. It's a prototype, as I said, so, uh, you know, you're welcome to try it. We're still iterating on it.
19:23:22 Um, and deciding what we want to do with it. But basically, Oberon here is an AI co-pilot, and it's been educated in the education… in the content that we've been talking about in this venture building process, so you could talk to it about building this type of business.
19:23:38 In this website, we call it intellectual property-driven Enterprise, but it's the same thing, creative-driven Enterprise.
19:23:47 And here, you know, we talked about these different audience segmentations and customer. Well, this website will help you create a draft.
19:23:58 Of those different segments here through a collection of questions that it asks you. Now, we don't, um, store any of this data, um, so that you can keep it private. Uh, so if you end up using this tool, just know that, um, if you want to
19:24:15 to keep track of what's getting generated, just take a copy or a screenshot, because we don't we don't save it. Just.
19:24:24 of privacy reasons. And also it's really expensive to pay for the cloud storage. And again, also entrepreneur, also a builder. So we're doing the best we can with the resources that we have. Distribution, pricing,
19:24:42 So
19:24:41 um, promotion, so you could sort of play around with all of this.
19:24:45 A lot of you that already shared some of your hypotheses on the chat, or even you shared out loud, it would be great if you use that as a starting point for going through this
19:24:58 maker-state process
19:25:01 Yeah.
19:25:02 An experiment where does this framework can take your idea to, and you can bounce back and forth with it and just like play with your ideas
19:25:11 Exactly. Exactly.
19:25:15 Um…
19:25:16 Cool. So yeah, I don't want to spend, and I just kind of wanted to open it up.
19:25:22 So that we can talk.
19:25:24 Should we stop the sharing and we can see each other's faces? Yes
19:25:28 Yes.
19:25:30 Do people… do you have questions like Cory, Lamont, Jane, Rachel, maybe Denn as well? You can add something or share something.
19:25:47 Do you have comments
19:25:50 Well, I think you guys explored a lot of stuff. I'm sorry not.
19:25:54 More of our large registration came through to join us tonight. I hope they'll watch it.
19:26:03 Okay, what?
19:25:59 It was a great number to bounce back and forth questions and have a conversation with the content. I thought it was cool that we could have a conversation.
19:26:07 Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad I'm… the people who came were engaged, and that's really nice.
19:26:16 Please.
19:26:13 Yes, I do have… I want to make a comment here. I'm a judge say in the decision? I'm a graduate in business marketing, so I really appreciate it, how you guys stuck to some of the basics with primary and secondary research. I mean, that's kind of like marketing
19:26:35 101, and he was pretty good. For those of you who are not as familiar with the business world and the marketing world it was pretty good I thought it was helpful for those who were not
19:26:52 If I was going to add anything to it, and you guys did kind of talk about it, I don't know if it was explicitly explained, and that's market segmentation. And so, when you, market segmentation is one
19:27:07 those areas in marketing that you don't just identify your customer, but you identify their needs and wants and you try to place yourself in that space. And so that would… if I was going to add anything, I probably would have been a little bit more
19:27:26 detailed about market segmentation, with that, but overall, I thought it was pretty good. I thought it was, you know, sort of helpful. It kept me engaged. I always like to check, you know, myself, and so it was a good way to
19:27:47 Great, great.
19:27:43 So, the board and as far as those questions, I kind of forget about them, but with those three questions were, but mys was, I thought was pretty
19:27:58 Self-explanatory as a photographer and a videographer. I shoot, you know, and I print my work, and so those are my, you know, my assets and my audience is
19:28:14 Just about anybody who wants to hang something on a wall, okay? I mean, if you have a house, an apartment, and you're looking for some decoration to put on your wall… Now, but, I do segment my market in that area, and that is, I'm a outdoor photographer, okay?
19:28:33 Okay.
19:28:33 So that's my segmentation, okay? I specialize in outdoor photography, which includes landscape
19:28:43 It includes wildlife, things of that nature, so that's sort of what I was talking about segmentation. That's a segmentation of mine, is that I focus on the variants
19:28:50 And when you say landscape, is it like rural or urban or suburban?
19:28:58 Well, it's a combination, but it's mainly like like national parks and things of that nature so it's outdoor in the wilderness
19:29:16 Okay.
19:29:11 Mountains, things of that nature. You know wildlife out in nature. So I do a lot of that. Some of it, I do some cityscape too so that's part of
19:29:27 It's not my stuff, but I do mostly outdoor. Adventure type stuff as my primary asset with regards
19:29:42 Now, as a teacher, I have a multi… I have multi-areas resources, so I teach and I get paid to do that. Also, I'm a videographer, and so I have corporate clients who pay me to do their events and things of that nature, so I do that
19:30:00 So, I have multiple sources of resources. When you're in the art industry, it helps to have, you know, more than one way to make some money, I tell you. And so, so I have, you know, various capital
19:30:09 Yep, exactly.
19:30:13 I have various categories of which I
19:30:18 I draw my resources, so… but I do want to say something to
19:30:25 Cory was shot down today and I hope this is a wealth of information that and it came to me when you were talking, one of my friends who's a fine artist, and he's a
19:30:40 He's an abstract artist, so… and he does mixed media but he works with paints and stuff. And so I thought about what you were talking about, and it reminded me of a conversation that he and I had
19:30:55 Excuse me, I forgot to turn this volume up over here, I hope that didn't disturb you
19:30:59 I… I'm sorry, I'm gonna just interrupt, because I need to run. It's 7:30 and I have
19:31:03 Okay, but I just want to say this okay well you can go this is
19:31:10 No problem
19:31:02 Okay. Thank you, Annabelle.
19:31:05 But continue. It's just, it's been a pleasure, I just need to run, I'm so sorry. Nice to meet you all. Bye.
19:31:09 All good.
19:31:14 Thank you.
19:31:11 I want to… I want to leave… I want to leave this with Corey, is that one of the things that I learned from him is that he pays a
19:31:24 And so if you can bottle
19:31:27 your your dies
19:31:29 Package it and sell it
19:31:32 That's another market avenue that you could
19:31:36 Look into
19:31:38 That's it for me
19:31:23 Whoops.
19:31:39 Thank you. Yeah, thank you all. This was, it's nice to hear little seeds planted and ideas. I found it incredibly helpful. So thank you for that and thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience
19:31:53 Of course.
19:31:54 So it was very, very wonderful
19:31:57 Great.
19:31:53 Great. And since we lost some people before we got to it, I'm going to communicate with the people who actually attended about the whole.
19:32:04 MIT workshop and the offer for having the certificate tuition paid, so.
19:32:10 We'll do that via email.
19:32:12 Perfect. Great.
19:32:14 Okay.
19:32:15 Sounds good.
19:32:14 Well, thanks everyone. Good to meet you all. Best of luck with all.
19:32:18 Okay
19:32:19 Thank you.
19:32:20 Thank you for coming.
19:32:20 You will. Bye.
19:32:21 Have a good evening everyone
19:32:22 Alrighty, take care.